HOLLYWOOD (and convertible coupe/Riviera ) BOWS there's a difference

Cost of: The person I spoke of to finish and varnish the bows was the guy who works for me. Cost to do the bows would be one gallon of varnish, split 5 ways, and what ever labor it took to sand the bows @ $20.00 per hour (probably 2-3 hours maximum per set...3 bows).

Q: I'm wondering if the headers for the Riviera are different. My windshield header swoops down on each end, and the wood header reflects this by having extra wood added and shaped to match the windshield metal header.

A: I don't have a factory drawing for the header. The cast aluminum windshield
assembly is the same for both the convertible coupe and the convertible sedan.
The headers should be the same. When I let you have my old header for a pattern, you can compare yours, and verify if they are the same. I believe Lynn James has the header for his convertible sedan as well as his convertible coupe.(Lynn, can you verify that the header for the two body styles are the same?) My metal socket (that hold the wood bows), and 2 pieces of strap iron,
hinged at 2 places. It resembles a U shape when bows are fully folded together.

Q: That sounds correct to me. I have the factory drawings to verify the pieces.
What do you mean by "metal socket"?

I dug out the bow drawings today, and removed the top bows from the car. I'm
ready to turn them over to you any time we can get together. Sorry you can't makethe upcoming PBAC seminar.

Q: I assume that the top bows are the same
> for the Hollywood and the Coupe Convertible.

A. They are not the same. Similar, but the dimensions are different. Also the
radius of the bends are different.

Q: Did I understand that the new top bows would be made of Hickory or are
> they made of Oak?

A: The original bows very made of hickory, according to the factory drawings. I
believe they were steam bent. Ray Wells laminates his bows, and I believe they
will be of oak. I will ask Webb Smith to verify this. The beautiful bows Ray
made for my American Austin roadster are laminated and appear to be of oak.
They are so nicely done, you cannot see any lamination marks or lines. Ray
Wells says his fixtures are set up for laminating, and that the bows will be
stronger and hold their shape better than steam bent bows.

Q: I would prefer to have mine finished also. Will the header need to be
drilled for the hardware also?

A: I believe the header bottom will have to be finish fitted on your car. You
will have to install the header hardware to fit the windshield on your car.


I asked Webb Smith to try and confirm the header and bow costs from Ray Wells, and to get some sort of idea what the final finish work and varnishing will
cost. I'll let you know about the money when I get all the details together.

> Thanks again for arraigning this reproduction of the top bows.
>
> I need to know also about the installation of the new top bows, possibly
> a drawing or a copy of the blueprint.

A: Do you have the hinge hardware for your bows? This is strap iron type hardware that mounts on each side of the body just aft of the door openings. If you do not have this hardware, I can furnish you with a drawing so you can make it or have it made. It is not complicated. I believe you said you had your old bows.

If so, it should not be too difficult to see where the mounting bolts go to
fasten the bows to the hinge hardware .If you do not, I can provide you with a
sketch with dimentions. The factory drawings do not show where the mounting
bolts go. The factory drawings for the bows are quite large and very faint old
style blueprints. I don't believe they would copy well. The hardware drawings
are small and distinct and will copy OK.

One of the critical dimensions of the bows is the overall width at the bottom
where they fit to the hinge hardware. One of my bows is in two pieces, so the
actual width dimension cannot be verified. The other bow is intact, and was
not installed on the car when I got it. It was just lying loose in the back of
the car. Dick Beagle, who is doing my restoration work, and I checked the bow
against the installed hinge hardware on my car. The bow has weathered and
shrunk, so it is about a inch and a half too narrow where it is supposed to be
fastened to the hinge hardware. In this case, if I asked Ray Wells to just
duplicate my old bow, I don't think I could "spring" the bottom of the bow far
enough to fit the hardware in the body. I checked the factory drawing overall
width dimensions for the bows against my car, and they are within about 1/16
of an inch, which will fit nicely. That's why I've asked Webb Smith to take a
copy of my factory drawings to Ray Wells. If Ray makes them to those
dimensions, the bows should fit OK. I don't have a convertible sedan to check
the dimensions, but Webb Smith does.

The header is another story. I do not have a factory drawing for this. The
header for the convertible coupe and convertible sedan are the same. My old
header does fit the windshield of my car. Webb Smith also has an old header.
Between the two old headers, Ray Wells should be able to make headers that
fit. Some minor adjustment of the routed groove in the bottom of the header
may have to be done, but this is in an area that will not show when the top is
in the up position.

Q: If the hinge hardware is the metal piece that fits over the side windows
with the small hinge on one end, then I do have one.

A: The piece you describe that fits at the TOP of the door windows is NOT the bow hinge hardware I have been referring to. That's another story which I will
talk about later. The hinge hardware I'm talking about, is a double strap iron
(band irom) hinge arrangement that mounts just behind the rear of the door on
each side near the top of the body tub, and retains the very bottom of the two
top bows so they will fold down. Do you have these hinges? They are what
retain the top bows to the car.

The hardware I believe you are referring to, is at the TOP of the roll up
windows of the doors. There is one of these hinged arrangements above each
door window. Each of these metal hinged arrangements is made of two pieces of
16 gauge sheet metal which makes a sealer sandwich with the top material to
seal at the top of the roll up windows. I only have one of these,. and it is
in poor shape. I'll have to make one or maybe two for myself. I DO have the
drawings for the pieces required, which are several. I'll have to confer with
Lynn James as he has the complete workable upper hinged sealer assemblies. I
will research this, and keep you advised as to what will be requirred. I
talked to Dick Beagle, who has started the restoration process on my
convertible, and he can make the pieces you require, if you want him to. Let
me get into mine, and when I have an idea of what it costs me, then you can
decide if you want him to make the pieces. If you don't want him to do it, I
can send you xerox copies of the drawings, and you can have them made back
there. I need to know what hardware you have, and what you are missing. If you
don't know, between Lynn and I, we can let you know what you need. How about some pictures?

Response: I have the one for the passenger side. It has a flange that appears to go under the windshield header and attachs to the center top bow with the small
hinge. I will need to make one for the driver side. I assume that a rubber
tract must attach to this metal piece and then fit over the side windows
when they are in the up position. I don't know if this rubber is
available or can be fabricated by the top maker when a new top is made.

I will look into that.

> If I am wrong about the hinge piece please let me know.

We were not talking about the same hinged hardware. See my comments above.

Q: I looked at my top bow yesterday...it seems there are two (2) bows and
One header. The bows are still attached to the top irons and seem to be in pretty good shape, but still in need of replacement. The header is pretty sad, but could be used as a fair pattern. The adjusting/fastening thumb screws and brackets are
still in place on the header. I don't know when I can get up your way, but I can call Ray and find out when he is ready to start making all the bows. How ready are the other members to have them made? Let me know.

Norm wrote:

You are lucky your bows and header are at least there. I'm copying Lynn and
Barney as they are interested in getting bows and headers made for their cars.
Also Bill Spear who is archiving A/B info. Lynn has both a Hollywood 2 place
convertible coupe and a Riviera like yours that he wants bows and headers made
for. The headers are the same for both cars, but the bows are different.

So what we have is (1) for Barney Gowin one header and two top bows for his
Hollywood convertible coupe; (2) for Lynn James one header and two top bows for his Hollywood convertible coupe, and one header and two top bows for his Riviera convertible (like yours, Webb); (3) for Norm Booth one header and two top bows for his convertible coupe; (4) for Webb Smith one header and two top bows for his Riviera convertible.

In summary, we have five headers, three sets of top bows for the convertible
coupe, and two sets of top bows for the Riviera convertible sedan. So, this makes
five headers and 10 top bows (five sets of two bows) Ray Wells said the cost
would be "about" $50 per top bow and $100 for the header. So for the top bows
we're looking at $500 and for the headers it would be $500, for a total order for
"about" $1000.

I have a old partially rotted header bow, but I believe it is good enough for a
pattern. Between that one and yours, plus I have a full size drawing made by John Beerkle. Since John originally started from scratch, his drawing may be slightly different than the actual old header patterns.

My convertible coupe top bows are in poor shape, but I do have the original
factory drawings for these as well as the Riviera top bows. I do not have the
factory drawing for the header.(what I have is John Beerkle's drawing)

Webb, what we talked about was that I would turn over to you my old header and convertible coupe bows and one copy each of my original factory blueprints for the top bows for the convertible coupe and Riviera convertible sedan. These
blueprints are 60 years old and very fragile. They must not be subjected to
direct sunlight and must be only viewed indoors. Otherwise, they will fade so bad they will be useless in the future.

You indicated you would be willing to "walk this through" to Ray Wells and get
the headers and bows reproduced. You would be the "keeper" of the patterns and drawings and do you best to safeguard these items. We do want all of the drawings and patterns returned in good shape.

Please find out from Ray Wells how we pay for the items. Does he need money up front? I'm willing to front the costs for the headers and bows, and collect from
Barney and Lynn later. From what you tell me, when Ray Wells turns over the bows and headers to us, there may still be some finish woodwork required. When RayWells did the custom top bows for my Austin roadster, they came out
beautifuly finished, varnished and all. (my top bows for my Austin are not
stock; they were copied from the bows belonging to Jerry Collier; they are like
the bows on a Model A Ford which allows the top to fold down and then be covered
with a top boot; beautiful, but not as original). We need to verify from Ray
Wells as to just how finished the headers and bows will be when we receive them.